During what started as a reasonably good-natured argument with several people on a Facebook group in support of Brexit (I'd gone into the lion's den), one person got a bit frustrated and called me a 'foreign piece of shit' on the basis of my surname. I have to admit, it was the only instance of someone using logic, albeit faulty, in the entire argument. It was more a use of assumption than formal logic and a case of adding two and two to get five.
I'd spent several sporadic hours throughout the day trying to get some Brexit supporters to articulate a single reason for their support of Brexit that wasn't based on a demonstrable fallacy, a misunderstanding of the areas under the influence of the EU, couldn't be immediately be demolished with a bit of simple logic or wasn't based on simple, naked xenophobia. Needless to say, there was not a single argument that could hold water and make me think; "Hang on, you have a point there." The argument, for what it is, is manifestly visceral and therefore immune to reason.
David Davies will today boldly go into Europe for what will inevitably be his Dunkirk moment. It will be interesting to watch events unfold, especially now that support for Brexit is crumbling in both the country as a whole and the government in particular.
5 comments:
I sifted through the diatribe yesterday, and I was disappointed, nay saddened at the remark you highlight above. It doesn't excuse it, but I do wonder sometimes if you appreciate that not everyone understands that on occasions you could easily have an argument in an empty room !! I have never minded you being controversial - even for the sake of it - but maybe you push some people a step too far on from time to time???? When folk are unable to articulate their feelings as well as you, when perhaps they can't provide ready back-up in print to their arguments ...... they shoot from the hip. I don't like it as you well know, but it doesn't always make their arguments less valid. We are in a sorry mess, no doubt, but the personal vilification of TM I have read over the last few days is inexcusable, largely unjustified and abhorrent in the face of everything she has had to deal with recently. I haven't always agreed with her stance, but debate as you and I know it has deteriorated into playground bullying, and I sometimes despair.
I am sorry you were insulted - no-one deserves that sort of language xx
I wasn't offended in the least. Surprised, perhaps, that someone should use nationality as a rationale. When the argument turns to ad-hominem, the arguer has implicitly lost the argument.
As for the vilification of TM - I'm afraid that was self-inflicted by her decision to go to the country. She has had less vilification than JC underwent before the election, which was orchestrated by the Conservative Party in the absence of a forward looking policy or any manifesto costings. Sheer hubris.
As you well know, I like to get behind what motivates and drives people. Invariably it's visceral gut reaction.
Almost as hot here yesterday as it is there.
I cannot help remembering Gen. De Gaulle always saying 'Non' to the UK's request to belong to the then E.E.C. and I rather think that he was correct.
For the UK have never fully integrated with the EU, constantly cherry picking terms and dictating terms, politically behaving like selfish children which makes me think that they really do not deserve be members of the EU and that we would all be better off in the long term without them.
I fear you're right, Mel, but it's such a shame. It's almost as if there's a feeling of jealousy in that Brits didn't think of it first, and so they don't want to play.
Yes Phil, it is very sad.
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